ABC2 News Breakfast with Virginia Trioli and Paul Kennedy
Friday, 03 July 2009
Topic: Afghanistan, indigenous affairs, last week in Parliament.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI Julie Bishop good morning, thanks for joining us.
JULIE BISHOP Good morning Virginia.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI What did you take away from your brief visit to Afghanistan?
JULIE BISHOP That we must never underestimate how complex and dangerous the task is in Afghanistan for our troops. They are doing a magnificent job, they have many tasks ahead of them. Probably the most important is their mentoring role for the Afghan National Army and the Australian troops are working closely with the soldiers in the Afghan National Army. They are equipping them, mentoring them, training them to ensure that the army itself will be able to take over the security in Afghanistan. They are also doing a lot of work on reconstruction and building bridges, schools, hospitals, using local people so there are jobs for local people. And then of course there are the special forces operations that are going on in Tarin Kowt and we did meet with special forces troops who are carrying out very dangerous work.PAUL KENNEDY No doubt. Now what do you make of the operation that we’ve been talking about this morning, the US troops and their latest push?
JULIE BISHOP The Helmand province is where most of the action is taking place. The insurgency is very strong in that province and that is where the US is concentrating its forces. In Orūzgān province, where the Australian troops are, there are probably fewer insurgents but still just as dangerous and our troops are out there hunting down the leadership in particular, and they have found if you are able to disrupt the leadership and the leadership structure, then the insurgency dissipates. Of course it regroups and comes back.
And I think what is not widely understood is that the Taliban are not necessarily made up of Afghanis, they’re people from all over who are coming through the Pakistani border and taking on the Americans. There are people who are coming to fight American soldiers. So it’s a very complex situation with the tribes, with the provinces, with the insurgents from outside the country, and our Australian troops are doing an amazing task in very difficult circumstances.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI So how optimistic, or how many misgivings do you have in relation to the forthcoming elections in Afghanistan?
JULIE BISHOP There is a lot of talk that the insurgents will target the election process, that they will try and disrupt it, that they will prevent the Afghani people from exercising their right to vote. We are sending more troops. Obviously the NATO-led force will be beefed up for the elections. It will be a dangerous time. I have actually suggested that Australia should send electoral observers on the basis of course that the security can be guaranteed, or at least there can be security for them.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI I am assuming there would be UN observers at least at that election…
JULIE BISHOP Yes and Europe are sending, the European Union, are sending observers. But I think Australia should send observers, as long as their security can be assured, to Orūzgān province where our troops are. And that election is going to be very robust. There are about 40 presidential candidates and so I think it is going to be a real test not only for the security forces but for the Afghani people and there is clearly an effort underway on the part of the insurgents to seek to disrupt it.
PAUL KENNEDY Can we take you to another very complex issue now, the gap appears to have widened in recent times for indigenous Australians, is it too early to have expected more from this scheme the Howard Government put in place, and the Rudd Government has taken over?
JULIE BISHOP I was very disappointed by Kevin Rudd’s response. He said these results are devastating, the Productivity Commission report is devastating – and that is right – and he said we need to take “decisive action”. Well that is what he said before the last election and it seems that nothing has been achieved and you will recall that’s why the Howard Government went ahead with the intervention into the Northern Territory because of the shocking results and the report into the abuse of children that had been going on in the Northern Territory…
PAUL KENNEDY Has the intervention not worked then, or are you blaming the Rudd Government for not picking it up and running with it?
JULIE BISHOP I think the intervention needed to go further. And the Prime Minister is currently in Western Australia, we have known for some time in Western Australia that the situation is dire and I would like to see the intervention moved into Western Australia as well. There are some drastic circumstances for indigenous people in the north of Western Australia.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI But its possible isn’t it that this is such an entrenched problem clearly across generations and across governments of all stripes…
JULIE BISHOP Yes.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI … and Tony Abbott was honest enough yesterday to admit that. That his Government, your previous Government, and this Government hasn’t done what it could. We’ve got to accept don’t we this gap is going to be open for a very long time before the effort, the money, the politics will actually close it.
JULIE BISHOP It is a generational problem, you’re absolutely right, and things like bringing in indigenous health workers, indigenous teachers, that is going to take time. That is part of the solution and that is going to take decades. But that doesn’t mean that we give up, it doesn’t mean that we say it is too hard, it just means we double our efforts to ensure that we can provide indigenous people with the best opportunities …
VIRGINIA TRIOLI Well that’s what Kevin Rudd was saying yesterday even though you describe it as a disappointing response.
JULIE BISHOP Well disappointing in the sense that he just used the cliché “we need decisive action”. I mean he says that in response to everything. We need to set out exactly what we are going to do, what are the priorities and how we can best tackle this disadvantage.
My view has always been that education is a key to this. That if we could improve the standards of education in indigenous communities then people would at least have greater opportunities in life and so I would like to see much greater effort there. I was Education Minister for a number of years under the Howard Government. I know how difficult it is, I know that it is going to take a long time but we mustn’t take our eye off the ball. We must continue to ensure that every effort is put into trying to increase life expectancy, educational opportunities, employment opportunities, to give also economic independence to some of these communities. It is going to be tough, it really is.
PAUL KENNEDY We should mention that in Western Australia there has been something done at a more regional basis, I think they’ve banned alcohol or have restrictions there in Halls Creek which is not far from Kununurra which is where the Prime Minister is going to be today.
JULIE BISHOP Well that’s right, there are local solutions for particular problems and I think that is part of the answer that you have to let the local people come up with the solutions. I have met with a number of indigenous women from these communities over time and they are trying different things to ensure that their young people can be protected. The indigenous women have a great deal to offer in these circumstances and we should be listening to some of their solutions and some of their ideas on what we can do.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI Julie Bishop it’s been a rough couple of weeks for the Opposition and the polls clearly show that. It would seem from right across the board from those opinion polls that Australians don’t really like what they are getting from you right now, they want something else. Do you know what that is and do you know how to deliver it too them?
JULIE BISHOP It’s always tough being in Opposition. You have to hold the Government to account which necessarily means that you are criticising the Government and exposing the Government’s failures. Now people don’t like negativity, that is just a natural human reaction, but the fact is that we have been able to expose incompetence, waste, mismanagement…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI … and exposing a little incompetence on your own side with the failed and fake email.
JULIE BISHOP Well Malcolm Turnbull simply believed the evidence that a senior bureaucrat gave to a Senate Inquiry…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI But now Julie Bishop, one checks before one jumps in.
JULIE BISHOP Well I think other people accepted his evidence as well. Certainly the media did, that they thought the evidence that he gave was truthful. I believed what he said. I mean this man gave sworn evidence to a Senate Inquiry. He’s a senior bureaucrat, highly trusted by the Rudd Government…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI … but we are dealing with, and it is yet to be revealed of course by the investigation…
JULIE BISHOP Well that’s right, there is a police investigation.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI … and it doesn’t mean we can’t talk about it, but it means we don’t have the sequence of events correct yet. But returning to my point, they don’t like what they are getting from you so what is it they want, how will you give it to them the Australian people?
JULIE BISHOP Let me just comment on this. You look at the opinion polls about Malcolm’s standing personally. In the last week of Parliament the Government threw everything at Malcolm Turnbull. Everything. Every rumour, every innuendo, anything they could dredge up from his past, in business dealings and the like, and they threw it all at him, publicly at him, during Question Time. I’ve never seen such a personal smear campaign against an individual as I’ve witnessed the Government throwing at Malcolm Turnbull all that last week. And of course that has an impact on the public’s view of a leader and so that’s a real problem.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI So it’s the Government’s success in doing that then rather Malcolm Turnbull’s fault?
JULIE BISHOP No it was a pretty ugly smear campaign. As I said, every single rumour, innuendo, anything they could think of they threw at him – including the kitchen sink – they threw the lot at him. That does have an impact on the polls. But Malcolm is a highly resilient, very intelligent person. He has the support of the Coalition, we are behind him and he is doing a good job.
When you say, what are we going to do about the poor polls, well we obviously have a challenge ahead of us to win over the Australian public to our policies, to our point of view, to our credentials in terms of economic management. And we still must expose the Government’s failings; the waste, the mismanagement for example in the schools funding programme, the massive debt that the Government has now imposed on generations of Australians. That is an Opposition’s task. It is not an easy task but we must hold the Government to account and that is what we are doing.
PAUL KENNEDY And Malcolm Turnbull’s leadership appears solid now, you’ve just said that.
JULIE BISHOP Yes.
PAUL KENNEDY Is that unless something else emerges from this ute-gate affair or do you think that’s behind him now?
JULIE BISHOP Well I believe Malcolm has always had the support of the Coalition, he is doing a good job as leader, it is not an easy job. They say it’s the toughest gig in politics, and I think that is right, being the Leader of the Federal Opposition. Many others have said that and I think Malcolm is finding it no different.
PAUL KENNEDY Is his leadership though reliant on further stumbles, like with ute-gate?
JULIE BISHOP No, Malcolm has the support of the Coalition. We’re behind him, we appreciate what he’s doing, we think he is the right leader for us and he is doing a very good job in holding the Government to account, exposing its incompetence, exposing its failings and also working to putting forward alternative policies. And that is what we will be doing in the lead up to the election, whenever that may be.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI Well speaking of the election, Peter Costello has clearly exited Parliament because he believes that Kevin Rudd is unbeatable at the next election. Is that your view too?
JULIE BISHOP No it’s not my view at all. I actually believe that the Coalition has a challenge in front of us but we can do it, that we would be better positioned to manage the economy in these times than the Rudd Labor Government. I think the Government’s mismanagement of the education programme, the school building programme, indicates that Labor can’t be trusted with money and I think that Australia cannot afford another term of Kevin Rudd’s Government.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI Julie Bishop good to see you, thanks for being on the program.
JULIE BISHOP Thank you.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI Thank you.
